Time for change of direction?

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Little Shrimp
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by Little Shrimp »

Keith wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 3:51 pm Whittingham's leading role in our demise must never be airbrushed out, no matter how crap PW have been.
Agree with this. His handling of the sale was utterly catastrophic - taking us from the club's best ever position to non-league while he faffed buyers around and rejected anybody with any promise. He's the reason we got stuck with PW as our only way to avoid going bust.

That said, despite the rubbish situation Whittingham left PW with, I'm getting tired of them bleating about the club's losses and financial issues. They were hanging around (and funding!) the club for a year before the takeover was actually completed. If there's stuff coming out of the woodwork that they apparently weren't aware of - that's 100% on them. And it's not exactly like paying the company that revamped the pitch last summer and paying your training ground supplier are hidden costs. Despite not paying multiple creditors, they've still managed to apparently double the club's monthly losses - which has presumably been wasted on paying managers off and building a ridiculous bloated squad. Simply keeping Derek, and the likely scenario of him recruiting a much tighter squad, would probably have saved hundreds of thousands, plus kept us up.

I don't agree with shouts for starting a phoenix club, and that being preferable. To do so while Morecambe FC still exists would be ridiculous - as pointed out, where would we play? It's a last resort if the club goes bust. But even then, I fear people are underestimating how difficult this would be. Bury have a much bigger and more historic fanbase, plus proximity to Manchester. Macclesfield are historically a more similarly sized club to us, but they've benefitted from some generous investors - arguably aided by their location in Cheshire (plus proximity to Manchester). There's no guarantee we could garner similar support.

I think for the forseeable, we are likely to be stuck with PW. With better decision making, we should be able to absolutely compete at the top end of the NLN without forking out such a crazy amount of money. Do I have hope of better decision making? Ropinder's influence has no doubt been diluted by the recruitment of Jim, Steve and Martin. The more people at the club running things who aren't him, the better. That said, he's still here, and that remains a problem. And in the short term, the outstanding creditors need to be dealt with. No more refusing to pay and going all Trump 'art of the deal' on people. Pay what's owed, get us back to a clean slate. Then if you don't like the arrangements with suppliers, attempt to negotiate new ones, or find different suppliers. And of course, a lot is riding on the footballing restructure and recruitment of a new manager. That should give an indication of how PW's decision making has potentially improved (or not so!).
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Keith
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by Keith »

BerlinWaller wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:21 pm Why was it good luck for us to play in front of empty stands and not for any other clubs? Liverpool won* the league in front of empty stands but it is aways claimed that their fans make a difference? Makes no sense to me at all.
You genuinely don't believe there is 'home advantage' due to the crowds support? Honestly?

There was also the financial implications, resulting in more financial restrictions for the clubs with larger crowds, or more to the point, financial restrictions and losses for bigger clubs.

Finally, because Derek was managing us during that challenging period, where he galvanised not just the team on the pitch, but the entire club, including the 'back room staff', at a time of great uncertainty. I remember talking to one member of 'back room staff' after promotion, who said Derek "dragged everyone through COVID".

COVID, with empty stadiums, and 'psychological challenges' for players and staff, was a huge leveller across the League.
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KenH
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by KenH »

BerlinWaller wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:21 pmNever understood the covid thing. Why was it good luck for us to play in front of empty stands and not for any other clubs? Liverpool won* the league in front of empty stands but it is aways claimed that their fans make a difference? Makes no sense to me at all.
Because of the financial support, grants, etc from both the government and the football league, that basically meant we had more income when we were closed than when we were open. The grants more than made up for the loss of income from spectators, etc.

We were loss making for years, so even without the grants/support, we'd make "less of a loss" because we didn't have all the other costs to pay, i.e. security, stewards, off the pitch staffing, etc.

Lots of non playing staff were furloughed so the club didn't have to pay their wages.

Just look at the accounts for the year in question. Roughly a profit of a million pounds, compared with huge losses before and after.

It all meant that Derek wasn't under the same pressure to cut back on player's budget nor the pressure of suffering the doubt as to whether the players would be paid or not every month - the club had plenty of cash.

As evidence of the amount of cash held by the club, the Board at that time took the decision to repay a huge chunk of the loans using the covid grants/support.

As for lack of fans, prior to covid, the club was on it's knees anyway, with very low attendances that fell year on year, so really there wasn't much of an atmosphere anyway, so the players weren't accustomed to being bolstered by full, noisy, stands in the same way that other teams were accustomed to, so playing in an empty stadium wasn't that much different to playing in a stadium with an attendance of a thousand or less (some evening matches around that time), or a couple of thousand or less, (like some Saturday matches).
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by BerlinWaller »

Keith wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 7:20 pm
BerlinWaller wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:21 pm Why was it good luck for us to play in front of empty stands and not for any other clubs? Liverpool won* the league in front of empty stands but it is aways claimed that their fans make a difference? Makes no sense to me at all.
You genuinely don't believe there is 'home advantage' due to the crowds support? Honestly?

There was also the financial implications, resulting in more financial restrictions for the clubs with larger crowds, or more to the point, financial restrictions and losses for bigger clubs.

Finally, because Derek was managing us during that challenging period, where he galvanised not just the team on the pitch, but the entire club, including the 'back room staff', at a time of great uncertainty. I remember talking to one member of 'back room staff' after promotion, who said Derek "dragged everyone through COVID".

COVID, with empty stadiums, and 'psychological challenges' for players and staff, was a huge leveller across the League.
But why was the stands being empty such a benefit to us and not the other teams in the league?

The financial aspect is understandable, the playing field was levelled but bot buying the empty stand stuff
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mrpotatohead
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by mrpotatohead »

For the record, COVID was very beneficial financially for the club financially, it was for a lot of lower league clubs.
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redrobo
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by redrobo »

Wonder if our newly installed COO can double up as a Business Analyst to look into all areas of off the field expenditure to see where cost savings can be made so that the budget provided by the owner is spent more wisely than of late.

A Business Analyst I know saves his company thousands a year by careful analysis of all expenditure.
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marky No.1
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by marky No.1 »

BerlinWaller wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 8:11 pm But why was the stands being empty such a benefit to us and not the other teams in the league?
I've always taken it that due to us having near to the lowest crowds in L2, it didn't affect us as much as for the bigger Clubs, particularly away from home where we would normally be facing a large crowd against us and not a particulatrly large Shrimp contingent.

Our players would have welcomed not having to listen to a lot of the crap spouted from around the touchlines at home
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CityShrimp
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by CityShrimp »

Plus referees getting influenced by large crowds (remember when we went all season in league one without getting a penalty).
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by black morse »

Well maybe the answer is to bring back COVID? ;)
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marky No.1
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by marky No.1 »

black morse wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2026 7:50 am Well maybe the answer is to bring back COVID? ;)
Most of the stadiums will be pretty empty anyway
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by vvm »

I'm no fan of Panjab but there have been at least a few promising signs. It came a little too late but sacking Ash and bringing back Martin are at least evidence of them being able to admit their mistakes to some degree. If they can bring in a few more of the right people (I'd like to see Rod and Graham invited back onto the board) and use the next few months to properly plan for next season, I would be cautiously optimistic that things could improve.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by redrobo »

vvm wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2026 3:11 pm I'm no fan of Panjab but there have been at least a few promising signs. It came a little too late but sacking Ash and bringing back Martin are at least evidence of them being able to admit their mistakes to some degree. If they can bring in a few more of the right people (I'd like to see Rod and Graham invited back onto the board) and use the next few months to properly plan for next season, I would be cautiously optimistic that things could improve.
My understanding is that Rod and Graham resigned from the Board due to their worries that their business interests may be affected by the finacial position at the time of PW and had concerns regarding the CEO's honesty...... :!: :!: :!: .

I like others would be delighted if both Rod and Graham were invited back onto the Board by the owner but I suspect that the CEO would have to go.

The knowledge that both could bring to the table is well known and both are respected in the North West footballing circles. Both are proven assets that our club badly needs particularly as a complete reset of the club is necessary.

Not sure if our owner take time to read this forum but if he does he will be fully aware of our thoughts regarding a key club appointment and the reinstatement of former Directors to guide our club through the current troubles.... :?: :?: :?:
Billy bodger
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by Billy bodger »

vvm wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2026 3:11 pm I'm no fan of Panjab but there have been at least a few promising signs. It came a little too late but sacking Ash and bringing back Martin are at least evidence of them being able to admit their mistakes to some degree. If they can bring in a few more of the right people (I'd like to see Rod and Graham invited back onto the board) and use the next few months to properly plan for next season, I would be cautiously optimistic that things could improve.
Would Rod and Graham want to come back, Graham had already said he would be stepping back a bit anyway. I think that there is every reason to have them around the Club, Rod was in the JB bar after the Carlisle game clearly enjoying meeting with the fans.

So my idea is that Rod and Graham could certainly be made ‘Honorary Life Time Presidents’ of the Club, which would be an acknowledgment of all their hard work and time they have given the Club over the years, how they kept the Club going and built up a great reputation of a welcoming family Club.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by Wild Bill »

I can't see Rod and Graham returning to the board. Its s very different setup now. I doubt the two official directors get involved in the daily running of things and its basically the CEO and COO running things. Also, I'd be surprised if Rod and Graham had much to do with the actual money men behind PW. That was probably why they they stepped away. Bringing them back would probably have very little impact on decision making and would be largely symbolic.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by black morse »

I did hope that Tarnia would become a Board member a little while ago but that's not going to happen now.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by Billy bodger »

marky No.1 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 9:20 pm
BerlinWaller wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 8:11 pm But why was the stands being empty such a benefit to us and not the other teams in the league?
I've always taken it that due to us having near to the lowest crowds in L2, it didn't affect us as much as for the bigger Clubs, particularly away from home where we would normally be facing a large crowd against us and not a particulatrly large Shrimp contingent.

Our players would have welcomed not having to listen to a lot of the crap spouted from around the touchlines at home


That’s true :shock:
black morse
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by black morse »

I hope that whoever is running this club (Rapinder?) is actively thinking about who will be manager next season and whoever the manager is will be able to select his own squad of players (money dependent).

I expect it will be Jim (if he wants it). Talk of Jim being a Head of Football with another manager/coach coming in is not taking into account that we have no money.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by deadorred70 »

We'll still only get free transfers and cast offs again but could still be selective up to a point.
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Re: Time for change of direction?

Post by redrobo »

black morse wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 10:12 am I hope that whoever is running this club (Rapinder?) is actively thinking about who will be manager next season and whoever the manager is will be able to select his own squad of players (money dependent).

I expect it will be Jim (if he wants it). Talk of Jim being a Head of Football with another manager/coach coming in is not taking into account that we have no money.
Obviously our owners have acted with an awareness of the financial implications but Jim's new role is so vital to the rebirth of our club that it can't be judged solely on the finacial cost.

If our owners feel that they can sustain the finance then who are we to question their right.... :?: :?: :?:

After all it's not our money that they are financing the club. The consortium obviously feel that they can continue to back their investment.
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